Do Umbrella Companies get a raw deal?

[The SMG]

In light of yesterday’s outburst from an umbrella employee, I thought it might be a good idea to have a general discussion about umbrella companies and where they sit in the freelance power chain.

My thoughts are pretty clear. I think umbrellas sit RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM of the food chain, constantly doing whatever they can not to upset freelance agencies and the contractors that work through them. Then there's HMRC, dispensations, the MSC legislation, IR35, Indemnity Insurance, PSLs, ‘compliance’, AEMC and so on.

So let's sit down, talk this through and ask ourselves this question…

Do umbrella companies get a raw deal?

G

[hugo@gabem]

I wouldn't use the term raw deal, we do have a lot of people to answer to, but what business doesn't.

In terms of yesterday's outburst, customer services departments (and I take it that the gentleman in question was in customer services) do suffer in all this as money is a very emotive topic, people can get excited quickly if they feel they might not get paid.

There is a lot more give in the business relationships we have than you might expect. The HMRC inspectors and auditors are just doing their jobs, and if you show that you're making an effort and stay on their good side, you can get a small amount of grudging respect.

In the end we are businesses and we are out to make money just like everyone else, as long as that is happening we're happy with the situation.

[CrazyMoose]

Originally Posted by hugo@gabem

I wouldn't use the term raw deal, we do have a lot of people to answer to, but what business doesn't.

In terms of yesterday's outburst, customer services departments (and I take it that the gentleman in question was in customer services) do suffer in all this as money is a very emotive topic, people can get excited quickly if they feel they might not get paid.

There is a lot more give in the business relationships we have than you might expect. The HMRC inspectors and auditors are just doing their jobs, and if you show that you're making an effort and stay on their good side, you can get a small amount of grudging respect.

In the end we are businesses and we are out to make money just like everyone else, as long as that is happening we're happy with the situation.

Good answer. I personally think that umbrellas are there to fill a gap in the market and the vast majority do just that. I would agree with SMG that your pecking order the 'freelance food chain' may be lower than most (agencies, contractors et al) but this shouldn't deter you from growing and maintaining a solid business. As you say, umbrellas do have a lot of people to answer to, but unlike agencies, you don't have to worry about debtors, chasing payments or cash flow which in today's turbulent times is not necessarily a bad thing.

[freelancerclive]

Let's see...... no.

The evidence?

Lost receipts (you only get one of those, and HMRC will take a dim view of you not having them).

Faxing things and never being received.

Blowing smoke up your **** when talking about take home pay, then you find you'd have to be extremely dodgy to get anywhere near that figure.

Screwing up your tax deductions.

Not paying you on time due to the wishy-washy excuse of "we never received your timesheet"

Expecting YOU to chase the agency in the case of non-payment

Never answering the phones

Never replying to an email, even if it's a simple question asking for them to send you a form

Messing up your pay and telling you they'll have to reduce your pay the following week


In summary? They're ****ing useless.

[The SMG]

Originally Posted by freelancerclive

Let's see...... no.

The evidence?

Lost receipts (you only get one of those, and HMRC will take a dim view of you not having them).

Faxing things and never being received.

Blowing smoke up your **** when talking about take home pay, then you find you'd have to be extremely dodgy to get anywhere near that figure.

Screwing up your tax deductions.

Not paying you on time due to the wishy-washy excuse of "we never received your timesheet"

Expecting YOU to chase the agency in the case of non-payment

Never answering the phones

Never replying to an email, even if it's a simple question asking for them to send you a form

Messing up your pay and telling you they'll have to reduce your pay the following week


In summary? They're ****ing useless.

Not sure which umbrella you worked through Clive (send me a PM, I'd love to know!). Clearly you've had a bad experience and I’m keen to dig a little deeper. For a start, why on earth you were faxing timesheets? What happened to their online portal? I always thought you couldn't really run an umbrella without one. Secondly, don't umbrellas have a duty to pay you on time regardless of whether the agency pays them or not?

Please explain.....

G

[freelancerclive]

Obviously you haven't been in this game very long SMG.

I had to fax them and the agency would not accept invoices without timesheets... together. A simple instruction but one that they seemed to find difficult. A quick search of umbrella companies (trust me, I've looked around for a new one!) would show you that a lot don't have online portals.

[CrazyMoose]

Originally Posted by freelancerclive

A quick search of umbrella companies (trust me, I've looked around for a new one!) would show you that a lot don't have online portals.

Well not according to this search I just performed..

http://www.freelancesupermarket.com/.../advanced.aspx


look for the 'Benefits Package' section and then tick the box next to online portal. I've just found 22 companies with an online portal...took me 10 seconds!

[curleyted]

Surely a semi-decent company could operate WITHOUT an online portal? It can't be that difficult if you're a relatively small operation

[CrazyMoose]

Originally Posted by curleyted

Surely a semi-decent company could operate WITHOUT an online portal? It can't be that difficult if you're a relatively small operation

yeah I guess but it would probably be a royal pain in the backside trying to keep everything in order. If you're running an umbrella with 30 contractors, maybe it's possible but anything more than that then you're setting yourself up for an early grave.

[JeffreyC]

All businesses make mistakes, I've done customer service in various guises for years. What has always amazed me about contractors is that it's "not their fault". Never is.

Even if it clearly is.

Hugo, I believe that I (and probably lurch) have the benefit of a degree of anonymity - we can say it like we see it unlike a company representative.