Umbrella for our PSL

Light_Box · 09-06-2009, 11:42 AM

Hi all, we're in the process of reviewing our umbrella company preferred suppliers list. Can anyone give me an idea of the companies you guys work with? We'd like to deal with just one or two companies going forward. Thanks a lot. lb

The SMG · 09-06-2009, 12:00 PM

get yourself on the main site LightBox. Here's the top 5 according to the league tables today...

1 CrystalUmbrella 119,508
2 Carrington Accou… 105,658
3 Gabem Management… 104,801
4 DANBRO 103,161
5 Parasol Group 99,754

G

Pistachio · 09-06-2009, 12:06 PM

Why even use a PSL? The whole setup annoys the hell out of me.

The debt transfer legislation states that if you didn't TELL someone to operate a certain way then you can't be held liable.

I know a mate who walked away from a contract once because the agency refused to deal with his brolly. They paid him fully under PAYE rules (all his contracts were IR35 caught and he didn't fancy the hassle of a ltd). He had worked with this brolly for years and they demanded he joined one of the ones they... I don't know what the phrase is... 'recommended'? 'Approved'?

That was a year ago, not sure if he could afford to do the same nowadays.

But he had historically been working through these guys for a while, so in no way could the Revenue ******* the agency.

So it's simple. Find the guy a contract, tell him he needs to sort payment options out and give him a steer on the internet. What he does from there is his problem.

The way I say it, operating a PSL actually INCREASES your risk under the MSC legislation, not decreases it. But someone else might disagree.

Light_Box · 09-06-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistachio

Why even use a PSL? The whole setup annoys the hell out of me.

The debt transfer legislation states that if you didn't TELL someone to operate a certain way then you can't be held liable.

I know a mate who walked away from a contract once because the agency refused to deal with his brolly. They paid him fully under PAYE rules (all his contracts were IR35 caught and he didn't fancy the hassle of a ltd). He had worked with this brolly for years and they demanded he joined one of the ones they... I don't know what the phrase is... 'recommended'? 'Approved'?

That was a year ago, not sure if he could afford to do the same nowadays.

But he had historically been working through these guys for a while, so in no way could the Revenue ******* the agency.

So it's simple. Find the guy a contract, tell him he needs to sort payment options out and give him a steer on the internet. What he does from there is his problem.

The way I say it, operating a PSL actually INCREASES your risk under the MSC legislation, not decreases it. But someone else might disagree.

Thanks for the advice. We prefer working with a few select companies for a number of reasons. Probably our main justification for setting up a PSL is that we only want to pay 2 or maybe 3 companies on a Friday, not 19! We don't operate in-house payroll and therefore need a reliable and friendly umbrella company to do this for us. We already work with one of the companies on your list but will contact the others shortly. LB

Pistachio · 09-06-2009, 12:27 PM

I'm sorry, that's crap. How long can it take to set up 19 payments? All you need is one admin person to do it on a Wednesday morning.

In case you hadn't noticed, you're providing a SERVICE. Paying people based on the account numbers they provide you are definitely part of that.

lurch · 09-06-2009, 01:35 PM

PSL's fell out of fashion after the MSC legislation came in (promoting a managed service company), but since umbrella companies (acting compliantly) were exempt it's back in full force mainly because everyone is panicking over compliance.

Safer to come up with a short list of people you're pretty sure are okay rather than just take all comers.

Beefy198 · 09-06-2009, 01:36 PM

I agree with Pistachio. Businesses up and down the country deal with multiple suppliers. What makes a recruitment agency any different?

Beefy198 · 09-06-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurch

PSL's fell out of fashion after the MSC legislation came in (promoting a managed service company), but since umbrella companies (acting compliantly) were exempt it's back in full force mainly because everyone is panicking over compliance.

Safer to come up with a short list of people you're pretty sure are okay rather than just take all comers.

Two or three companies? That's a short short list though.

Malvolio · 09-06-2009, 01:49 PM

See, what I don't understand is why you, an intermediate agency, think you have the right to dictate which service providers I can use? OK, I use my own company, but if I had been with an umbrella for a few years and was quite happy with them, just why should I change my arrangements to suit you? It makes no difference to the end client (remember them?) but it might make a great difference to the freelancer who is, after all, the one with the skills for hire. OK, it means you might have an extra dozen or so invoices a month to deal with. Shame.

zoso · 09-06-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistachio

Why even use a PSL? The whole setup annoys the hell out of me.

The debt transfer legislation states that if you didn't TELL someone to operate a certain way then you can't be held liable.

I know a mate who walked away from a contract once because the agency refused to deal with his brolly. They paid him fully under PAYE rules (all his contracts were IR35 caught and he didn't fancy the hassle of a ltd). He had worked with this brolly for years and they demanded he joined one of the ones they... I don't know what the phrase is... 'recommended'? 'Approved'?

That was a year ago, not sure if he could afford to do the same nowadays.

But he had historically been working through these guys for a while, so in no way could the Revenue ******* the agency.

So it's simple. Find the guy a contract, tell him he needs to sort payment options out and give him a steer on the internet. What he does from there is his problem.

The way I say it, operating a PSL actually INCREASES your risk under the MSC legislation, not decreases it. But someone else might disagree.

I disagree.....

....your argument about debt transfer and MSC legislation is rubbish because umbrella companies are excluded from MSC so there is no risk of debt transfer!!

If they are putting together a PSL of accountants to deal with their Ltd Company (PSC) contractors then they need to be careful but if its just pure umbrella companies then they can do what they want.