It's all gone horribly wrong

[Biff]

Got a contract, got an umbrella company, got talking to the client. Rate came up, I figured they knew all about it and was making small talk so openly discussed it.

That was Friday, I've now had my agent on the phone shouting blue murder at me because "it's breach of contract to discuss rates" and that I'll never work through that agency again.

I haven't had a chance to look at the contract yet, but it's probably in there - I'm so stupid. Will they be able to instigate the notice period or does that have to come from the client? Either way, it looks like I'll be looking for a new contract then...

[Biff]

Well, I've been working for a week and don't really want to look for another contract! Does having done some work change any of that advice?

[Pistachio]

Biff, I would do two things (though others on here might disagree):

1) Talk to the client. I think they didn't realise the size of the margin the agent is creaming and gave the agent hell. He's now threatening you as a result. I don't think the client will be too impressed.

2) Just ride it out. I doubt they can just pull the contract from underneath you, so just do your best on the site as it will be the client giving a reference anyway. If the agency are like that you won't want to work with them again anyway.

[Bel]

If you have started the work, but are terminated, it has to be for legimate reasons, as specified in your contract. Not just for any reason based on some personal recruiter gripe about whether you should have discussed rates. If your contract is terminated, you are entitled to notice as set out in your lower contract - just as you would if you were terminated for any other reason that doesn't amount to a legimate reasons for instant termination without notice.

In my experience, recruiters prefer you not to discuss rates with the hirer - but these are normally from recruiters that charge hirers a mark up on a fixed pay rate, not those that negotiate a margin rate with the hirer, and a negotiated rate with you. These days, hirers that agree margins very often do want to know what flexible workers are being paid. I don't think you have done anything wrong - unless your contract did specifically state that you shouldn't discuss rates.

You fate in this engagement really depends on whether the client agrees with the recruiter's margin and the agreement in the upper contract regarding your own conduct about discussing rates. If the client thinks you're basically untrusworthy because you've breached your contract terms, they may take a dim view of the situation, even if you've furnished them with useful information about the margin.

But if the recruiter has overcharged them for your services, they may overlook any breach and not entertain the idea of terminating you, on those grounds alone, if you are doing well and don't want to lose you.

[Azazel]

Hm.. I've never personally seen a clause that says "thou shall not discuss rates with our client", but may have to use that in the future....

Anyway, here's the agent's view on this: the client has probably approached them and given the agency a budget of x to get someone placed.

The agency have seen you coming a mile off and when you said you were happy with rate y, they jumped for joy and offered you it, knowing that they were creaming a lovely, lovely margin (i.e. x minus y)

Now, it's clearly in the interests of the agency for the client not to know this (or, in the case of large organisations, other contractors). So they'll tell you it's not professional to discuss it. Hell, you're new to this game and don't know any better. Like I said, they saw you coming. That phrase is tough but true.

But you've gone and innocently mentioned it, and I don't think there's anything wrong in that - it's your business and your right to disclose it if you see fit. But the client has thought:

"Hang on! They're taking a ****load for not doing much at all, I expected the majority of that to go to the guy hired to do the work"

They've picked up the phone and gone nuclear on them. That's ****ed off/embarrassed the agency so they've now started threatening you.

Can they terminate your contract? Possibly, but they'd need just cause so I too recommend keeping your client in the loop at all times.

Sure, you'll probably never work through that agency again, but with friends like them who needs enemies?

You're new to this game, and yes, it can be a game. They'll be a few more tricks you'll pick up on the journey.

[ShortStraw]

I will always happily discuss my rate with my client! I don't think it's that big a deal... unless the agency are taking the proverbial with their margin.

Obviously, it isn't as big a deal all round when the agency take a fixed margin.

[mckinley|resource]

Hi, i'm in that enviable position of working both sides of the fence - I find interims and contractors for my clients as well as delivering freelance assignments myself.

In my personal opinion it's unusual to have a 'do not talk about rates' clause in the contract mainly because it's really difficult to police.

What I would say is that if it's there then it's there, you may or may not deserve a slight slapped wrist but that's all. The recruiter in question as discussed in the above post has gone in at the price set by the client and this is a lot lower than you are being paid. The client has got mad as he has suddenly realised the margins being made from you.

My approach has always been to 'open book' it. I explicitly tell the client what I am making as a percentage and that is where we negotiate. In turn I open book the rate I have to pay to the contractor. My client can then make that call as to whether I have added enough value to the conversation to justify the rate and in the main I have but being realistic sometimes they don't like what they see, but at least they have that choice.

In terms of you moving forward, the recruiter will stick with you, if nothing else he is driven by money. He/she might have to a hit on the margin now that the client has seen the truth but some margin is better than no margin in this current climate. More importantly it doesn't sound like the client is unhappy with you or your work just the margin their recruiter is making. They do have choices and could change their provider (hint!).

Stick with it, keep the client on your side, deliver what you are being paid to deliver and it should be fine. If it isn't talk to me and get your client to talk to me.

[Biff]

I've just realised that I emailed a scanned copy of my contract to the agency. I've read it over lunch and I can't see anything in there, although there is a confidentiality part but that doesn't mention anything specifically about rates. Could they do me on this?

[Biff]

Oh, and thanks for the advice so far. I'm definitely going to mention the conversation I had with the agent this morning to my client

[curleyted]

I actually agree with Azazel. It sounds harsh, but this recruiter has seen you coming. He knows you're new to the game and wants to scare you. Just play hard ball back.